WICEN Vic: //WL2K HF net at Pajero

Fri Mar 27 04:01:16 CDT 2015

Hi Tim

The answer is:  both.  They each have different capabilities, different
advantages and disadvantages, and different "barriers to entry" (ie price).

Hence they are useful for somewhat different things.  It's not a case of a
foot in each camp with no direction. 

Winmor / RMS Express / Winlink 2000 is a good email system.  It is much
cheaper to get into than Pactor, as you have noted.  However the Winlink
2000 system is not secure (encryption is not permitted due to US law) and
the recommendation is not to use passwords - which makes penetration
possible.   The limit for decodes with Winmor is about -8 dB signal to
noise.  For emcom use it also has some technical shortcomings I won't go
into here.  It is a useful capability to have.  

Pactor / Emcomwin  is a very good emcom system and does other things as well
as mail.  Data is fully secure (strong encryption) and the network is
hardened against penetration.   Pactor (in particular the tweaked version we
use) can decode to about -24 dB signal to noise, so is much more robust when
conditions are poor.  We also have access to sophisticated propagation
measurement / planning information to help us choose the optimum band in
real time.  This system (in particular the Emcomwin software) has been
developed from the ground up by a team of scientists and engineers
specifically for emcom use and has been in active use for about 15 years.
Part of this system is a number of network stations (gateways if you like)
which scan a range of frequencies and operate 24/7.  There is even a network
station in Darwin, specifically to exploit daytime propagation. All network
stations (including mine) are 'hardened' for reliability and against things
such as power outages.  

So: we are running with 2 systems.  

We received a grant last year for some Pactor modems and these are forming
the core of a specialist group to exploit the Emcomwin / Pactor system, in
addition to the handful of WICEN people already using the system. This forms
the basis of a high performance, secure, and very reliable emergency comms
capability.  We also have other modems which have been offered to us if
these are not sufficient.   This has largely removed the cost barrier.
WICEN is loaning these modems to members via a loan agreement.  

As it happens, the first training session is happening this coming Wednesday
night.  (You may recall there was a call for expression of interest issued a
little while ago.)    So we are on our way with Pactor / Emcomwin!
Meanwhile, others are developing our RMS Express / Winmor / Winlink 2000
capability. 

Hope that clarifies where we are heading. 

Cheers,   John

  _____  

From: Timothy Mc Bain VK3MIT [mailto:vk3mit at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, 27 March 2015 6:10 PM
To: John and Bronwyn Morrissey
Cc: Mark Dods; <wicenvic at vic.wicen.org.au>
Subject: Re: WICEN Vic: //WL2K HF net at Pajero

So is WICEN opting for Pactor or Winmor? We seem to have a foot in each camp
without firm direction for the future? 

Personally I can't afford a Pactor modem. I doubt if I'm the only one in
that boat!!

Offer made to Dirk re HF monitoring and Winmor stuff as per copy below - no
response from Dirk yet - probably a bit busy!!

Cheers - Tim, VK3MIT.

Hi Dirk;

I still have a work commitment on Saturday night
<x-apple-data-detectors://0>  that precludes me from being "on site", but I
may be OK to assist with HF.

I am available Saturday up to 1500, then from midnight Saturday night
<x-apple-data-detectors://1>  through all day Sunday for anything HF - 80/40
or whatever suits. I'm in Wangaratta; it may prove beneficial from a
propagation point of view to have someone a bit further away than Melbourne
on deck.

My Winlink HF Email Gateway will be running too, of course. It usually sits
on 40 metres, but this can be changed to suit.

Is this of any help to you?

Cheers - Tim Mc Bain.

VK3MIT

WinLink Gateway: VK3MIT-5

EchoLink Node Provider: VK3MIT-L

IRLP Node Owner: 6363

Vk3mit at gmail.com

0428 <tel:0428%20387%20599>  387 599

From: wicenvic [mailto:wicenvic-bounces at vic.wicen.org.au] On Behalf Of Dirk
Versluys
Sent: Wednesday, 25 March 2015 10:44 PM
To:wicenvic at vic.wicen.org.au
Subject: WICEN Vic: Pajero Challenge 2015.

Dear WICEN members,

As most of you will know, the Pajero Challenge is on this weekend in
Gippsland, north of Walhalla.

As a result of a late change in numbers assisting with the running of the
event, I'm putting a message out to everyone in case there are another one
or two potential operators who may have been unsure about attending but now
have the time available. We will manage on the numbers we have, but I would
prefer to be comfortable with numbers to make the operations run smoothly.

I would also appreciate hearing from anyone who can monitor HF for a few
hours in Melbourne. We will be making regular check in's and as there is
limited phone access in the area, we may require the use of a link to
someone via HF that can contact emergency services. If you can assist,
please let me know.

Thanks for your consideration.

Regards

Dirk Versluys

Phone/Fax:        61 3 <tel:61%203%209879-8384>  9879-8384

Mobile:                0428 <tel:0428%20240-073>  240-073

Radio:                   VK3FPAJ

Email:    versluys at optusnet.com.au

                marysvillemagic at optusnet.com.au

P.O. Box <x-apple-data-detectors://11>  2333

Ringwood <x-apple-data-detectors://11>  North  VIC  3134

Sent from my iThing.

On 27 Mar 2015, at 17:42, John and Bronwyn Morrissey
<jbmorrissey at netspace.net.au> wrote:

Hi Mark, Dirk

Another proven option for email is the Pactor system.

I will have the system with me (I always bring it), and there are 3 network
stations (gateways) which run 24/7 with good coverage into this area.  

My own network station has very good 24 hrs coverage for this area and we
have other options too (frequency / location).  I will make sure I leave it
in high power (400W) mode. 

I will be setting up early as I am also setting up the repeater for the
first part of the course and I will be at that location at least until very
late Saturday with the option to stay longer.   

If AWI can nominate some email addresses tomorrow (or even tonight), I can
easily mail them. 

Cheers,   John VK3ZRX

-----Original Message-----
From: wicenvic [mailto:wicenvic-bounces at vic.wicen.org.au] On Behalf Of Mark
Dods
Sent: Friday, 27 March 2015 5:21 PM
To: wicenvic at vic.wicen.org.au
Subject: Re: WICEN Vic: //WL2K HF net at Pajero

I'm planning to try and poll the DPW and MIT gateways from the Pajero on 
Saturday evening.

Paul W, can I just clarify your comments below? Where do I nominate the MPU?

Mark.

On 27/03/2015 4:43 PM, dromana at drivein.net.au wrote:

John & All,

I absolutely agree.

It may not be the same as an actual voice conversation in a life/death 

situation, bit so long a people are monitoring their smart phones 

Email, and a number of them, there should be good response.

By the way, my gateway is running in Radio-Only mode Winmor & Pactor.

You may have received a rather rude comment to use another RMS.

I have pulled the Internet you can get used to using the Hybrid system.

Instead of selecting WL2K Winmor etc. from the dropdown, choose 

Radio-Only Winmor etc. (Adds a -T to your callsign).  Also, nominate 

the MPU (Message Pickup Gateways), to collect your Email. (VK3DPW 

could be one of them).

Messages sent are usually sent on to the next RMS gateway within 1 or 

2 minutes.  Receiving messages seems to take about 5 min (depends how 

long your message is !

Paul Whitaker

VK3DPW

On 27/03/2015 11:07:00 AM, vk3cvf at winlink.org wrote:

See that Dirk is asking for somebody to monitor HF for the Pajero 

Rally.

Why can't we find somebody at the event to string up  a HF antenna 

and use RMS express to send back reports every couple of hours.  This 

can be sent to a group address so it arrives a various peoples smart 

phone.

Either get serious about its use or lets just forget about it....

[Read receipt requested]

[Read receipt requested]

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-- 
Regards,

Mark Dods, VK3ZR madods at optusnet.com.au
QF22NE

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